The Partnerkin editorial team stumbled upon Stan by chance, and the encounter proved to be noteworthy. It turned out that he has been involved in influencer marketing for eight years, working with the casino vertical and closely collaborating with bloggers on Instagram. In Telegram, he is better known as Big Stan. We asked him about the challenges in the niche, intricacies of work, and the risks involved in such earnings.
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Casinos are a grey vertical. How willingly do bloggers associate themselves with it?
Not all opinion leaders are willing to work with high-risk products, even with cashback services. For some, it's a matter of the cost of posting on their accounts, for others, it's a matter of principle. I've encountered responses like, "I am not so poor that I need to advertise a casino".
But you can negotiate collaboration with everyone on mutually beneficial terms. If a client wants to advertise with a specific blogger, understanding that the desire should be backed by financial motivation for the influencer, my team handles the entire process, from negotiations to publication.
Is it difficult to negotiate prices with influencers? Are there price ranges for advertising purchases?
Almost every blogger has a price list, and for casinos, the price tag is often 2-3 times higher than for white products and services. We regularly encounter those who need assistance in pricing negotiations, usually the recently popular and young bloggers. On the other hand, we also deal with inflated prices. Handling objections from bloggers sometimes takes more time than negotiating collaboration with the client, in a positive sense.
Over the years, we've developed scripts that significantly simplify communication with influencers. But unfortunately, I can't share the details of how my colleagues operate.
Do you write creatives for casinos yourself or do bloggers handle it? How is your work organized?
Our process with clients kicks off by understanding their needs and reviewing the outcomes of past ad efforts. Then, we craft a strategy for promotion, considering sources, methods, formats, media placement, and how the brand communicates with the audience for a specific campaign. I don't handle administrative tasks like budget approval and payment processing.
The creative phase begins just before the launch, following the approval of the media plan, which includes the list of bloggers set to feature the ads. Our extensive database covers 20 000+ platforms worldwide. While clients usually provide ad materials, our team includes a designer (also skilled in motion graphics) and a scriptwriter dedicated to creating engaging content. If needed, we collaborate with a production team under partnership terms to produce videos for distribution. Every script and video undergo client approval before going live.
You've been working in the niche for 8 years. What have you learned during this time? What other niches do you work with besides casinos?
Yes, I love my job. This vertical can teach a lot to those who want to get something more than just money from their activities. Promoting "white" brands becomes much easier for me personally. I easily adapted to clients in the gaming industry, payment solutions, and cashback services, not to mention online stores and marketplaces.
It's crucial to establish equal communication with bloggers, leaning towards friendly relationships. But without going overboard, maintaining a "golden mean." I'm often asked about competitors in my niche, but I consider everyone as colleagues and don't aspire to a monopoly. In my view, there's more sense and profit in collaboration than competition. For example, not long ago, I launched a completely new traffic source for a client who regularly engages my team's influencers, and to achieve a better result, I ran a joint advertising campaign with the same team.
This vertical teaches collaboration but with vigilance. Being sociable, but in moderation. And, undoubtedly, it instills a sense of responsibility. It's not crypto, of course, where changes happen every hour. But a deviation from the publication schedule always affects the outcome, just like posting on an inappropriate day or time. Prime time for casinos in the CIS, for example, is weekends and evenings.
Would you be able to work solo in this niche, or is it easier in a team?
I started solo, and I succeeded, but it didn't last long. A month after the start, I had a partner. We worked on a 50/50 basis. I think I could handle certain tasks independently, but there wouldn't be an opportunity to scale up to manage advertising campaigns for dozens of clients. In short, I could, but with a team and partners, growth is always easier and more productive.
From the perspective of a creator, I always learn something from those who join the team, just as they learn from me. Exchange of experience with partners and colleagues is also an important part of development, usually happening at conferences and rare face-to-face meetings. I always thank the universe for people, so the team is a priority.
Does your team have a name? Tell us a bit about it. How many people? What do they do? Is there a division of responsibilities?
Our team is just emerging, and currently, there are ten of us. Two managers, five account managers, a scriptwriter, a designer, and a brand strategist. There's an informal hierarchy, and everyone understands their area of responsibility. Interestingly, everyone works on a commission basis, earning a percentage of the revenue generated from advertising campaigns.
The decision to scale up and develop a website came from our clients. Over the past month, I've heard several times from different people, "Guys, people should know about you." You'll find out very soon.
You mentioned that bloggers receive 3-5 orders from your team every month. Is that guaranteed? Was it challenging to achieve such guarantees?
In our vertical, guaranteeing anything is very difficult. Of course, we can't promise a blogger a regular flow of orders. But after 2-3 deals, the influencer understands our potential and willingness to work with them. This allows us to negotiate more acceptable prices, often lower than market rates. A continuous flow of clients plays a role; my partner and I are always looking for new ones and working on the development of current ones, implementing additional services—payment solutions, tools for working with the customer base, and a bonus program.
We usually work under contract, and we engage promising bloggers in long-term collaboration. Wholesale purchase of advertising from a specific influencer also predisposes them to lower publication costs.
You said you take a commission. How many percent? Is it possible to earn regularly from this?
Yes, we include a predetermined percentage of the commission in the cost of publications. Usually, it's around 10-15%, but it depends on the volume of the purchase, the product, the client's request, and the preparation process.
My team is responsible for the qualitative and timely implementation of advertising campaigns, including all processes, each of which the client would spend more on, hiring contractors.
At the same time, we are responsible for the preservation of the advertising budget after receiving it. If, for some reason, a blogger does not fulfill their obligations, we replace the platform at our expense. In other words, besides the service, the client receives insurance against fraudulent actions by the influencer.
How is it that even with the commission, it's more profitable for clients to work with you than directly with bloggers? What are the risks of working with bloggers without an agency?
Regarding the price — yes, in 95% of cases, it is. The secret lies in the answer to the previous question. Due to the flow of orders and bulk purchases, the blogger's price is lower, even with our commission. By the way, the client is also entitled to state an acceptable cost for placement with a specific influencer, and we will do everything necessary to accommodate the client's price. Sometimes it's not an easy task, as our commission should be included in this amount. But we manage. Moreover, if we manage to agree on a lower price, we always inform the client, as it strengthens relationships. As I mentioned earlier, the value is in people.
It turns out that working directly with clients is riskier than working through us? What other risks are there in working with bloggers outside of an agency?
Like most teams, we have a "blacklist" of influencers. It includes those who have not fulfilled their advertising obligations or channels with an artificial audience, in other words, artificially inflated.
To honor a blogger with a place on this list can be achieved through personal experience and feedback about them from colleagues and partners. But each of my colleagues, like me, has "bought" a blogger's verification for working capital.
It is inevitable, especially in my vertical. Advertising orders for casinos imply good payment, and often there are no mechanisms for accountability in case the influencer fails to fulfill their obligations — to release the advertisement.
But not today, ladies and gentlemen.
Most casinos and bookmakers operate with a license, allowing them to enter into an agreement with our legal entity, and us — with bloggers or their representatives. We have learned how to protect ourselves and the client by securing deals with contracts in the legal field of the CIS, Europe, Asia, Latin America, Canada, the USA, the UK, and New Zealand.
However, my team's task is to find influencers 24/7. We do not operate our products and specialize in selection and publication, allowing us to provide the client with a selection of 1 000 – 5 000 advertising platforms in a short time.
Over more than 5 years of my team's work, we have compiled databases that we regularly update and expand. In other words, the client buys not only publications from us but also selection, quality, guarantee, and insurance of advertising budgets.
What do you think, is there a future in collaborating with influencers? Or is it not as profitable as it seems from the outside?
To be honest, the process is not as simple as it may seem. In my view, the future lies in combining several traffic generation sources into a unified proposal.
There are clients for whom influencer traffic is not needed at a certain stage, and we openly discuss it, recommending our partners in Facebook, In-app, PPC, and other directions. On the contrary, others need publications from bloggers.
This is where our value as specialists comes in: identifying needs and providing the client with exactly what they need, backed by our expertise and research.
Affiliate networks are actively developing, undoubtedly simplifying the client's work with sources, but influencer marketing requires constant communication and focus on the process. Therefore, by building a team in this direction now, I decided to scale up and provide additional in-house sources. My HR is actively conducting interviews with specialists in In-app, PPC, and Facebook.
What advice would you give to those who want to earn in the same niche as you? Are there any niche-specific features that newcomers should be aware of?
To begin with, one needs to understand why a newcomer enters this niche.
In my view, the best solution for starting in this vertical is an internship and at least 6 months of work in a specialized agency. People come for the money but usually have a weak understanding of the responsibility that comes with it. Most give up after the first or second unsuccessful deal, where the blogger took payment and did not fulfill their obligations. By progressing from an intern to a top manager, you can build your own team.
In my experience, punctuality, literacy in correspondence, spelling, and well-articulated speech are important. These skills need to be cultivated to negotiate with major brands and top influencers.
Don't chase big clients and try to secure hundred-thousand-dollar budgets in the second month of work. Hone your skills while working in a team as a hunter or on small local brands. Try to derive maximum satisfaction from providing value to the client and increasing sales and average checks.
It's important not to give up and work on yourself. Burnout is inevitable, as is professional deformation, and you need to replenish the energy lost in the communication process. By the way, I'm still learning this.
I would highlight responsibility for budgets as one of the "pitfalls," but it even motivates moving forward. Overall, all difficulties are described by me above, and when facing new ones, I recommend perceiving them as routine. Working with the human factor requires stress resistance, and if you enjoy what you do, you will cope with everything.
Conclusion
Influencer marketing in the gray vertical is an interesting niche with its complexities. Many bloggers have a biased attitude towards casino advertising, and an inflated price tag is not the biggest problem. There is a risk of encountering an unreliable performer, and then you'll have to pay out of your own pocket. However, teamwork and connections play a significant role in this niche.
Big Stan, a person with experience and his team, shared how he works in influencer marketing and where someone who wants to earn similarly can start. Stan's contacts on Instagram: @foundercofounder, on Telegram: @bigstanlive.
